How to play this hand?
Well I have to say it has been a few weeks and I still have the HPT on my brain. I’m going through every hand wondering if I played them correct. I still feel I played to tight at the end. I do have a hand that has been running through my brain for awhile.
Blinds are 15000/30000 with a 3000 ante. 7 people are left in the tournament, one person away from my goal of TV. the man under the gun limps in and makes a production of the fact he is limping. At this point I’m putting him on a monster hand waiting for someone to raise. He has just between 250000 and 300,000 in chips left.
It is folded to me in the small blind, I have 8,9 of diamonds. A hand I like but and would raise with if he hadn’t limped. I just call the big blind, I have about 320,000 in chips left. Here is where it gets funny, the big blind raise 60,000. Now he could be raising because we both showed weakness. He has us both covered and was a more aggressive player. The first limper looks at me for a long time to see if I might push all in before he just again calls.
At this point, I can’t put the limper on a monster just calling there, and the big blind could really have any two cards just trying to bully us. I debate on shoving all in or folding. I don’t want to call cause I’m first to act and will have to make my action before everyone else and don’t want them to catch and call. There is already over 200,000 in the pot so pushing might steal the pot right there. But I’m very nervous of the limper. Does he have a small pocket pair, or a hand like mine. And can I get either or both to lay down there hand at this point? I decide to play for tv and I fold.
The flop comes 10,7, 3 with two hearts. I would have flopped the open ender and I would have shoved at this point. The big blind makes a small bet and the limper goes all in and is called instantly by the big blind. They turn over their cards. Big blind has AA he actually did wake up to a monster. The limper has 9,8 of hearts. He has a straight and a flush draw. The turn is a jack giving him the straight and the river a heart giving him the flush and crippling the big blind.
So after the flop, I wouldn’t have gotten either player off their hands but if I push per flop and the big blind calls which he obviously would. Does the limper fold or call? Did I miss an opportunity by playing it to safe or did I play it correct? I would love to hear some feedback.
Posted: April 8th, 2010 under Steve's Blog.
Comments
Comment from Rich Edinger
Time April 9, 2010 at 6:25 am
There is 171,000 in the pot, you should have called since it only is costing you another 30,000 and you are getting the right odds. Here, calling is your only option. Pushing all in too risky since 1) you only have a good drawing hand; 2) you would be risking essentially your tournament life on 8 9; 3) there is a real chance that you would get called because at least one player believes with his holding hand he is getting the right odds and you might not have enough chips to get him off the hand ); and 4) your hand is the perfect hand to see flops with.
Comment from Steve
Time April 9, 2010 at 8:07 am
the raise was 60,000 more. he raised to 90,000.
Comment from Jack
Time April 9, 2010 at 8:35 am
Now that you have clarified the raise size, I think folding was the correct play. At first I thought you meant he raised TO 60,000, which is a min raise and makes things interesting. With the raise to 90,000 (standard) I think folding was the best option especially considering your goal of the tournament, which was to make the TV table. Next time we are swapping % again! lol…
Comment from CarpePM
Time April 9, 2010 at 4:27 pm
You started the hand with about 11BB. I think you are at the point where you fold or shove PF. The limper should be at that point as well. BB has you covered, but you didn’t say by how much. I know the temptation of calling with those cards, and maybe the BB lets you see a flop if he is not aggressive or his stack size isn’t big enough to let him shove you around. That’s all you can hope for and if you think the 15000 is expendable knowing you will have to dump the hand if you miss or if the BB raises, then go ahead. Once you are raised especially with that ‘please call’ raise, not a bigger ‘please fold’ raise, calling it would be a mistake, as it was for the limper. The ‘winner’ of the hand was lucky as he hit, though he called where he should have open-shoved or even shoving after the raise would have been better than what he did. Additionally, the Fundamental Theorem of poker says you would be doing the right thing by folding.
Comment from caeslinger
Time April 13, 2010 at 9:15 am
There is absolutely no question but to fold here. You are WELL past the point of taking a chance with a hand like 89s for the price. Pot odds are meaningless in a situation like this. Calling and leaving yourself with 260K when you lose a minimum of 25% of that every round – is too great of a risk when your (usually) best hope is to hit a DRAW of some sort.
As far as after the flop – nothing is happening differently if you shove – they both call. AA still shoves and the limper with his 15 outs is calling every day – we know this because of his 2 mistakes preflop (limping and calling a raise).
Whether it happened as explained, BB bets, limper shoves – or BB check, limper bets, BB shoves – or any other way, those chips are going in.
Comment from petek
Time April 14, 2010 at 5:41 am
Yep, when you are down to 11bb you need to be thinking about spots to shove over preflop raises where you either have a strong hand and are doing it for value or for some reason you think you have some fold equity, i.e the button min raises and does that 100% of the time on the button and you have 89ss in the big blind or something. Other than stealing/restealing you can’t be calling raises and putting a big percent of your stack in without initiative or any plan other than “I hope I flop something”. This is what separates top tournament players from players who break even/lose over time because they make very good decisions with 10-20 big blinds.
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Comment from irockhos
Time April 8, 2010 at 2:44 pm
The fold is the correct play. This has nothing to do with the fact that I know their whole cards. (you prob think i’m just saying that but bear with me). The initial raise by the player in the bb isn’t representative of a weak hand (this has nothing to do with the fact that he does actually pick up AA here). I would say this if i didn’t know what he had. He knows the utg limp is typically a strong hand (in this case not really) and he probably doesn’t think his raise will even get the utg limper to fold. You have to think you are at best in 3rd place, but with your pot odds and 320k left seeing the flop isn’t out of the question although you would be sticking 20% of your chips in by calling. If the bb min raised to 60k you have to see the flop. I thought you said he raised 60k more though? If so, you’re still getting almost 4 to 1 to call 60k more there since there is 231k in the pot (plus implied odds). I think the worst play would have been to shove.